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Helen: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode on our podcast today. We're diving deep into the world of design and customer experience with a remarkable guest, Michelle Pascoe. Michelle is not just an international speaker. She is a force of nature in the realms of training, research and business. With a passion for customer service that is truly contagious, Michelle has been a trailblazer in the hospitality industry for almost 30 years now.
In 1994, she founded Optimum Operating Procedures and Services. The acronym of OOPS. I love that. Yeah, I love it too. I do love it. A company that has become synonymous with mystery shopping, service benchmarking, and transformative leadership development. As an accredited trainer and author, Michelle's expertise spans every aspect of service operations and processes with a laser focus on the Impact on the customer [00:01:00] experience.
She's not just a business woman. She's a storyteller, a researcher, a podcaster like ourselves who has many episodes under her belt, not like our newbie. A newbie. She's well versed in that, unlike us and she believes in the power of a feeling, a sense of belonging that transcends the ordinary. Thank you, Michelle, for joining us today.
Welcome.
Michelle: I've been looking forward to joining both you beautiful ladies and having this conversation about design and the experience because you can have a great product or service, or in this case, walking into an establishment. But we all know if you just don't get that right feeling, it's like, okay, how can we get what we want and get out real
Karyn: quick.
Yes, absolutely. And we are particularly excited to have you because we do know you quite well. And we know how knowledgeable you are and how much you've got such vast experience in this [00:02:00] industry of, excellent service. And let's face it, Michelle, I've been to many places and it seems to be Recently, and even more so post COVID, and I don't know if it's got anything to do with COVID, or it's just one of those things, but I feel that service has, the service based industry has dropped in the sense that the delivery of the service and the full package just isn't there.
Isn't there anymore? And as a consumer, yes, I would like a service, but I would also like a really good experience. And I'd like to know that what I'm getting is genuine, is authentic and I want to be able to walk out feeling satisfied. So that leaves. To your expertise and what you do. So you train service based industries, their staff, their managers and whatnot on a PR level as well.
And that's really important. And, but a lot of people think that that's the only thing that is important. They don't realize there is a [00:03:00] lot more to it that will create a change from, yeah, that will change you from a good service. Excellent service. So in your opinion, what are three things that you've noticed or that you've experienced over the years that you would suggest to your clients or your, you know, as to how they can improve their service based into the service based business and make it excellent like that whole package.
Excellent rather than just
Michelle: good. And you're right, being just good and the expectation of our members and our guests today across the whole broad hospitality industry is about that experience. And so the first point, you know, that I'd love to share about is how to create that memorable experience for all the right reasons.
And once again, it does come down to the person. And I do hear what you're saying. However, we were the first. The first to close and the last to reopen and [00:04:00] unfortunately we lost a lot of wonderful middle management team members and even our frontline team, they found that there are other industries that they went into.
They are slowly coming back.
Helen: Yes.
Michelle: It's getting them to apply. It's getting them to stay. And we're also looking at a very strong demographic of Gen Z. They're going to be our biggest cohort in the next decade, both as our, customers, our members, our guests, as well as our employees. So there are different grouping again, when we look at demographics about how do we attract these people to retain and then to provide that amazing experience, not just through the words that we say, but how we look and how that environment looks.
And of course, then how do we create that amazing culture? Because we can create an experience. And it's interesting. And I'm loving this about design because sometimes You know, and I know you ladies day, we can have this wonderful [00:05:00] architectural plan and then somebody walks in and goes, seriously, how am I going to get to A to B?
But anyway we'll get to that. The next point is about ensuring safety and compliance through design. That is a big thing. Whether, we are looking at the safety of, those that are inside, not only our customers and guests, but also our, team members locations of doorways, entry points, escape routes in emergencies, but also the safety of carrying plates, the safety of carrying tills, all those little things that still have to look pretty to the observer's eyes, but are extremely functional.
There's spaces for changing trends because, oh my goodness, years ago we used to do, the old really for perhaps every 10 years, then we got to seven, five, three, and now if you're not literally changing the cushions on your sofa or on your lounge in the foyer every couple of weeks, people go, oh, Hi.
[00:06:00] And so we've created this expectation throughout the whole society that things have to be constantly changing and when people are coming to your hospitality, whether it's a restaurant, cafe, pub, bar, gaming. Blubs, the whole variety. They are expecting that wow factor constantly. However, they still want consistency and if that's what you're coming with the service space.
So there'd be
Karyn: three key areas I'd love to have a chat about.
Michelle: That's
Karyn: awesome. And like we said earlier, You think it's just about the service. It's like a doctor in a surgery. You could be the most brilliant surgeon and have all the skills and all the PR skills, but if you don't have the right environment, the right tools, the right staff to safety and staff, and if you're not up to date on the latest technology to help you create, you're not create, but carry out your surgery, your skills.
And then it's like, it's null and void. How can you deliver [00:07:00] that service if you don't have all that as a backup to support you? So that, that is brilliant. I love that, you've brought all of those things up because they also relate to our industry as well, being interior designers and building designers.
The space is really important to us, but to, one of the first, I guess, one of the first questions we ask our clients is what kind of, what are you trying to create this space? What kind of ambience are you trying to feel? How do you function on a daily basis? And that's all information that we then collate and then start to work design and the look and the aesthetic around.
What they're trying to achieve, but it always comes back to functionality as Michelle touched on. Absolutely. 100 percent important. So I guess, how do you, Michelle, when you're with your clients and you're giving them the whole package and you're teaching them how to. How to be excellent service providers.
How do you encroach on the subject that it's not just their [00:08:00] presentation and their skills? How do you encourage them to, or how do you get them to understand that their space and their environment plays a massive impact on them? On their business, like it could be certain elements of design or just how does that really impact the whole experience just through design and space and ambience?
Yes. So
Michelle: perfect question. And it's not just for the people walking in through the door, but it's utilizing that space as a team member, so it's understanding that different spaces have different times. So if you're creating that Amazing first impression. And that's what it is. Many people, you know, they've looked at the website, they've perhaps looked at the images on social media.
So this has given them this. Oh, this is going to be absolutely fantastic. And we now know some of those photos aren't all those. It's actually true. A lot of [00:09:00] wide angle lenses. Boy, I look like the, the size of a Olympic goal, three people and a dog in it. So when they get there, it is ensuring that that team member, and this is what we go through, with the frontline training, particularly for that concierge team is key.
Cause the, not only are they representing that wonderful welcome and that first impression, but they're in a uniform and uniform in a sense that, when a member or guests Or a customer comes in that door, they've got a thousand questions for them. They're also asking them, perhaps the car parking, or they'll come in a little bit hot and frazzled.
So it's that experience of going through a couple of steps that I go through the training and coaching with. But we end it specifically by. Walking them along. So this is where the space is used too often. We see many businesses have a lovely front desk and all that's great. [00:10:00] Oh, it does. It's great. This barrier behind it, and no, you're not allowed to sit on a seat and you're not allowed to swivel on a stool.
And I know people go, Oh my goodness, that's really hard, but. When you create that, that, that barrier between you and the person coming in, who is going to be spending money in your business, you need to remove yourself. And that's where, that great design is that there is easy access for that team member to move in and out, not to have, falling over computer cords because that part of the desk has been put in the wrong direction.
And this is where it's really key. And I know both, you do this, is having these really. Strong, robust conversations, not just with the CEO and the boards or the stakeholders, but also that frontline person who's standing there for eight hours asking the operator, walking around. So, it's going through that training of purpose.
What do you expect when those doors open now? As you know, when we're customers, as you were rightly saying, is [00:11:00] somebody to greet you, move away from the back of that counter, be there when the door opens, if they're coming in with the prayer, I know we've got beautiful heavy doors that we design, which are magnificent to keep the cold and the heat out, but they're a real struggle when you're coming in or you've got packages.
And then it's utilizing that whole space. It's not just keeping them there. So it's thinking about the design. Is this space, does it work when there's three people in there? And does it work when there's perhaps 30 people in there? That's so right,
Helen: Cheryl. You are so right. And I will say, talking about having that frontline person and you're making me reflect here on the clubs that I've been into.
And it's that person that greets you. You feel like you're more like a family welcome. You know, member of the club, you mightn't be a member, but the person that steps out behind from that desk, there's a few that I can think of that. Yeah. You just feel at home. And that's that moment you walk in that club, you feel comfortable and [00:12:00] someone's greeted you and helped you check in.
And then, given the information, like you said, answer the questions that you may have. So you're so right. It's just, it's that human contact, isn't it? Not putting up those barriers.
Michelle: Yes. Yeah. And it's that seamless experience, which we are all seeking, but particularly if I hark back to that generation said, that is what they're looking for.
They may just walk through, show the badge or check in really easily. And I'll go through that when we look about compliance and safety, because I've come across a few amazing things in the last week, either traveling out to regional New South Wales to keep that. Yeah. That flow through, but it also comes down to that team member of being aware of what's happening, what's behind them, what's on the walls, is it just a blank wall with a whole lot of signage that nobody's going to read?
Or is it beautifully, just one or two pieces of glasswork or a painting or just a floor arrangement. something that catches their eye and that people are, literally [00:13:00] besotted by that. So if I have to take a few more minutes to do some signing in or ask some questions, then they go, Oh, this is fantastic.
They're
Karyn: experiencing that space. I
Michelle: remember a number of years ago, I was in a hotel in it was actually the Wits Carlton. It was in It was in KL and you're there, you're signing at a guest hotel, we're all adults are up here, but a little bit further on the desk actually went down the height of the child.
And you know what, you're trying to check in with children that are going, Oh, and the parents are in here. Look, I'll be with you in a minute. And there's no focus. Okay. Here child stands there or children stand here. There was some colouring in, there was some plaster, dough, that's good, that's well thought through.
That's design. That's design. And who's, oh no, that answer that's a couple of years ago, but who thought of that to do that thinking, this is not going to only [00:14:00] make the child happy. This is going to create that first experience of, I'm checking into a hotel, I'm here for a night or maybe a few weeks and already they're feeling,
Karyn: Oh,
Michelle: I'm going to take my first, exactly.
And the
Karyn: fact that they're considering. The children is a bonus for parents with young children, because you want to know that they've got systems into place that are going to take care of them, that you're not going to miss out on all the nice things of the space because you're constantly, trying to keep your kids in under control.
So it is the little things, isn't it, Michelle, it's those little details that collectively can create a big impact on the client and also make it. A lot more functional and flow smoothly. I'm going to go
Helen: back to the details. Great example. Actually, it is a great example. I'm going to go back to the details that Helen just mentioned then.
And you also did Michelle like you saying it's that whole experience. It's actually branding in it, in its essence, really, [00:15:00] like you said, people are looking online and looking at those images. Have that preconceived, Oh, I'm going to have a fabulous night or lunch or dinner or whatever it may be.
I've looked it up, I've checked the menu out. And then if you come to a venue and then that's in conflict with what you've seen online, that instantly puts up a bit of a barrier because your expectations have come down because the club, the marketing, the frontline people, it's not a cohesive feel to it.
So you cheated. Yeah, you
Karyn: do ripped off before you've even engaged in any transaction.
Michelle: So you can just imagine that if that's what you've done, if they've had their expectations here and now you haven't met them and you certainly haven't exceeded them. They're not only are they not going to enjoy the experience, but the ghosts start nitpicking at every
Karyn: single thing.
Michelle: And they're not going to be the tolerant person who is now going, the team members, they're smiling and they're just going to be this negative and it's [00:16:00] yeah. Yeah. Across. So then when we look at, we've only just walked into the Boy, there was a number of clubs have used over the years the tiling on the floor or the carpeting on the floor.
Now, thank goodness we got away from those lovely aqua colors of the 70s and 90s and the large fish designs. But, we utilize that when we're looking at some venues that are very big, it's lovely to give them a map or the front person to go you just go up there to the right, go left, go right.
But a very quite a few very smart businesses hospitality businesses now say, see that gold tile, you follow that colored tile and you will become, you will go to that destination, whether it's the child's area, whether it's a dining experience, whether it's a particular bar, whatever, or leading to the lifts, whatever it is, it's using what we need.
Like we need tiles on the floor. We need some visual cues. But the visual cues, but that is this fantastic design where we think about where it is. I know I was speaking, I was at a conference many years [00:17:00] ago and it was a guy who had designed a bank of all things and he'd used black and white tiles.
And so what it was as a person, you stood on the black tile in that aisle. And okay, people's faces was in before. Yeah. It's using those little things that, in a way of, well, how do we set up? How do we get to point A to B and that we don't have. Members or guests walking around going, where am I getting ticked off?
I've got the, I've been on my dining points at seven. I can't find the dining and some of our clubs, that I work with, and I'm absolutely doing this last 30 years massive need to have those. The other is through, the visual cues, yes, on the floor, but out the music, the smell, and many clubs have used that, that you will, you can go.
And. Sometimes you don't realize it because it's subconsciously, but when, like the three of us, we are, but you'd walk [00:18:00] into another, the music changes, the lighting changes, and there is a different scent, and it's just very mild. But it once again is taking you on this journey and creating that.
Feeling of, oh, wow, this is just amazing, but you're engaging the
Karyn: senses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On one point on that with this, with the smell, the scent that goes through, and we're well aware of that too, because we have worked with a company that, that produces these scents when we were doing the cruise ships.
But I did notice, and you, like you said we're all three of us are very alert to, and aware of the subtleties. Yeah. They also have to be very mindful that they don't overdo it because I know I've walked into a place and I went, Whoa, and the set hit me like, and I went, Oh, it was too much, like too much perfume.
They didn't, they hadn't put the time into getting it. They've probably heard, this would be a great idea. But they didn't actually think about how subtle it had to be. The first [00:19:00] time I ever walked into Harrods, I was very excited to go to London and go visit Harrods. And that's what happened to me when I walked in there.
Helen: And I'm to this day, and that was 20 years ago. I, it takes me straight back. I can, it was so overpowering that I had to leave. Pointing, because it was parrots and I wanted to explore every level, but the scent, so overpowering. It may be a new thing back then, 20 years ago.
Karyn: Well, I think it was actually, because it, yeah, because it was real that people were aware it was a new thing.
And people were thinking, Oh, put a scent in here for the gaming room and a scent in here, like music. We got the music and then now we suddenly got the scent, but. I think, yeah, it went too hard and then now we're doing it the right way.
Michelle: And then you get those sprays in the toilet and you go, oh.
Oh, yeah. But even that subtle smell of the fresh coffee. Yes, now of course you're going to get that naturally [00:20:00] within that space of the cafe, but we need that to be projected out. So that's another thing, where we've got those sprays that have been made. So, as they're walking along, they've come out of that dining area, they may start to moan, Oh what shall we do now?
And then if, you know, the sense back here, way up the corridor is, Oh, Oh, I feel like a coffee. I wonder where the cafe is. And now we start to move along that other journey. So big difference. Yeah. Yeah.
Karyn: So your space is so important and I'm really glad that, you've talked about it at great length because it's It is important.
It does make a difference. And you had made some really good points there, and I loved your example. Let's now go to the not so sexy side of it, , and let's talk about safety and compliance. And again, this can be done through design. Well, that has to be done through design. If it is something that we have to do, there are rules and regs that we have to comply and we're getting more and [00:21:00] more stringent with our rules that we have to be very creative in our business.
We have to be as creative as we possibly can to comply and tick those boxes, yet still have that beautiful create a beautiful ambience and have that lovely space to work in. So this is another thing. For you, that you need to consider because you brought it up earlier about cords and tripping and engaging and mingling in with the people and your audience or your members or guests or clients without tripping.
So are there any specific design features or considerations that play a crucial role in maintaining a safe and compliant environment for both your guests and your clients? The staff. So, in your experience what have you noticed? You've already said one of them. We're interested to see how you, you know, get around these.
Michelle: Yeah. So it is interesting, is it particularly when [00:22:00] you're looking from a dining room aspect or the cocktail lounge, and we want to use up. Every space, window and air and let's put those large tub chairs right in front of the fire ex. It doesn't always work. Right. . And we know how our members and guests also love to move the furniture.
Us. So it is it, yeah. So first off, is that safety, where are the. The exits are, there's nothing in front of all those tiny little things that make it big. And that's where when I go into my training, it's even though either I don't do safety and compliance training. It's about that guest experience is ensuring that all the furniture is in the right place.
area for a start. You've designed, you've brought in this beautiful furniture. Where is it placed in the room? Yes, it may look good over there, but it can't go there for a specific reason. So that's one thing. If we look at just the space where the servers are coming from the kitchen, it's lovely to have these doors that you just bump with your backside and they [00:23:00] open and close, but we've got to think about how those doors swing.
Do we know that they're going in and out? Where are the, I was at a restaurant Last night in Sydney, beautiful restaurant, but the walk from our space to the restrooms had was also where the servers were coming from. The kitchen.
Karyn: Wow.
Michelle: Beautiful tile floor. One guest fell over with the sun. Then I thought I got, oh goodness.
Oh how many tickles or sherry sheets, ? But I then went out and experienced the same thing and what it was. The staff, the service coming from the kitchen on their feet, was all the oil from the kitchen.
Helen: Oil, of course. And it brought the
Michelle: whole tarp up, but you couldn't see it. So then we're chipping, towing around.
So it's little things about like that. That is an area that our members and guests, our diners are going to. So think about if that's a thorough corridor for them, then where is our team coming out of that kitchen? Are there mats there for their feet to wipe on? [00:24:00] Not to wipe on like it were the front door, but something to pick up.
A transition. Yeah. A transition. It really just, I just sort of went, wow, that is a massive accident. That
Karyn: obviously wasn't well thought through because in the kitchen itself, they would have had the proper flooring. Exactly. To comply. To comply and avoid it, but they're not. Thinking of that transition space.
It's
Helen: traffic flow management really isn't it?
Michelle: From the patrons to the staff. Yeah, so you know, and that was just, that was only last night, so it's just like being on a skating rink. You've also got to think about in our hotels, as well as certainly about our clubs, going from various venues where, various areas within the venue, whether it's the bar, Wherever there is a pause system where you've got staff that are walking from one area to another with that till now, we don't want, big security guys walking around, but you've got to think of the line of sight of where they are going to from where they are collecting it [00:25:00] from 20 leagues has created an amazing space.
It all goes underground. So it's very much done on the design of Disney. And that's what we've got to think about. We don't just look at our hospitality industry. Let's look at other industries. What can we learn from them? And I know both you ladies draw from other industries as well. Always the whole concept of Disney.
It's all below ground. You never see the characters say, Oh, they just pop up. That's the same as this concept there that it was all underground and they just pop up. And so everybody. Is very safe. The other is also compliance coming in the front door and using, you were saying hell about technology and it blew me away.
I was down at a hotel accommodation in Aubrey last week and I walked in and there was a very funny, odd desk. It had lots of teas and it looked more like a cafe to me. And all the girls out there at the front door Hello, welcome. And she just took me straight to this massive big machine where I [00:26:00] checked in, got my room key and the set, put the card in, et cetera.
So there was no, I mean, she was there, which was great because I thought how do I use it? We've now seen that with technology with membership renewals, but that's that compliance we all have to sign in, whether it's a, whether it's using a loyalty program, whether it is, checking into a hotel, but using that technology that didn't look clunky either.
So it was still attractive brand awareness, coloring looked great, but also was. Accessible to multiple, like they had multiple machines. That was really cool. So just think about that. And then of course, safety in the back of house is, that everything is, proper electrical fittings all those things of design.
Looking at a kitchen area, I know I've worked with a number of chefs over the years in different clubs where, you know, the, it's been designed and looks fantastic, but the, when it [00:27:00] comes to practicality, we're now taking a boiling, pots and pans, we're turning around to here, in an area that you've got other stuff going through, all those little things.
You've got to connect with the frontline,
Helen: the people that are using it, don't you? Yeah, exactly. And it comes down to time too, doesn't it? So if that's not functioning and flowing and the traffic's not flowing the right way, then that's delay, delay, delay. And then, as we were saying before, it, that makes for an unpleasant experience for the guest or patron.
And that all needs to be considered. Obviously in the design process. And if it's not, then it's just, yeah, it's not a good thing all around. It has
Karyn: to be. And I, in an ideal world, Michelle, it would be great if we could have everything underground. Unfortunately, we can't. We have to be, well, us as designers have to be.
Aware of all of those things and think of every little detail and [00:28:00] resolve it. It's like a puzzle piece and all these and a roadmap and all that sort of stuff that we have to be creative and make it look good and feel good, but at the same time, practical and functional and safe, I guess. Well, yeah.
And you do that by educating. Your clients on, okay, if you tick all these boxes and you consider all of these things, you're going to be able to deliver this wonderful service that you have on offer. And now those things you're kind of, you're going to have all these issues that are going to work against you.
Yes.
Michelle: I guess that's right. And then, the team don't feel comfortable if they're having to walk from one area to another. It's actually, I'm seeing a lot of, and I'm sure you ladies have these large venues that have got these spaces that are just voids. Yes. It was the, where we put the 20 years worth of Christmas trees and all the rest of that other raffle ticket that we've ever had.
And, I know a lot of venues have [00:29:00] used those when, designers such as themselves have come in and go, well, what's behind this door? And all of a sudden it's like, my goodness, you know, and you've got that picture in your head and then just. Putting that out there, you go, wow, you've got all this space that you can possibly use and how then does the team member bring people into that area as well?
And that's where it comes down to that experience. Get them to start searching for places. But I don't like making it hard for our members and guests, but getting them to explore. I think it's amazing.
Helen: Yeah. And I think you mentioned before, Michelle, that it's not just about as designers from our side of things.
It's not just speaking to the board, I remember when we first did a club years ago, Helen and I said can we meet with front of house? I know staff can change, but we have questions, but why do you need to question them? And why do you need, we like to speak to as many staff as possible because Yeah.
When we were starting out doing clubs, that's not, wasn't our area of expertise. So we need to learn [00:30:00] from each other. So the plans, the design all comes out and is a win win for everybody. Generally the operations manager is a good one for someone like us to go to and ask the questions because they should have a good understanding of how things should be operating and flowing.
Karyn: And then it's up to us to take that information. And. Put everything in its place where it should be. But yeah, it's it's definitely challenging trying to keep all those things in. But at the end of the day, it's well and truly worth it. So 1 other last thing point that you touched on, Michelle is adapting the spaces to changing trends.
So the hospitality industry, as we've all been discussing is very dynamic. And trends are evolving constantly. And so is technology as you were discussing earlier. So how do you approach training to ensure that staff and managers are adaptable with their changing design trends [00:31:00] and the club and hotel space?
Okay. You said earlier that it's the timeframe between giving your space and update has gone from like, 10 years down to 5 years and now some places even 3 years to keep up, but that's an expensive. Exercise, and I know a lot of Westfield and that they have strict rules as to how frequently the shops need to update and it is a big expense, especially, when things are a little bit tough at the moment coming out of COVID.
So, what things would you suggest to your clients and how can they keep up with those trends, consistently along the way without that big major transformation. Okay, eventually they're going to have to because, things get dated and worn and they don't look as good. But what sort of things do you tell your clients that they can do to keep up with those trends so that the place is fresh and feels good?
Yes.
Michelle: And it is utilizing that space and what you've already got there. It's even [00:32:00] changing the direction of furniture. For a while, I remember I went into this club and all the furniture was these lovely seats with the coffee table in the middle and the other seat, looking at each other.
And it was like rows. And I thought, I felt like I was back in, the old bullies cafeteria in Tamil. It was so uniformed and it was. Boring. Absolutely. Boring. But of course, they couldn't afford to turn around and spend tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on furniture, which we moved it around.
We made some cozy spots, a little secret area. Everybody loves a booth. Some new little cushions, of course, we've all seen the rage over the last, number of years now of having that. Instagram worthy. Yes. What space have we got in our venues that we can have, something that is aesthetically pleasing that, but it's lovely to have a pretty wall, but for goodness sakes, put you in like your venues.[00:33:00]
Anywhere. Not everybody goes here I'm at so and but there's a club down here at war at it's shoalhaven there as part of the exs group, and they've got this beautiful little swing that you can go on out. But what have they got above the, they've got, it's what the club's name is.
Marketing. You expect that to be part of it. So it's just changing space through what we've already, what already do we have that can create those trending moments? It's looking at what's happening in other industries. We've seen not everybody allows pets to go into hotels more and more now, particularly in the U S and it is coming here and it's already here in a lot of accommodation places.
That's right. So they have yappy hours. So again, it is utilizing that space around the pool and where you go to meet, a lot of people travel by themselves [00:34:00] and go there to meet people. And so they that's the dogs are meeting so it's using that space and then that space could be used for something totally else, differently, there's some clubs may use spaces that all right in the morning.
It is fairly quiet, so they may have ladies yoga or mom and bus club. And then at lunchtime, it's now, we just pull out the furniture, we rotate it a little bit differently. And now it's an extension to our dining room space. And then in the afternoon, it could have something else for a really nice, you can, move the furniture, but also put some pot plants in there, that, that sort of style.
And then we go into dining. And then later in the evening, it could then turn into a very small trendy cocktail bar for 20. Yes, it could be a place, a reading room in the afternoon and you don't have to do much or spend much to do these little tweaks to see the trends that, maybe in for a few months and then [00:35:00] we can switch it out for something else.
Helen: But it's also what that does for the club is it's. Revenue as well. Like it's not being stagnant. It's thinking how can we use those spaces to, boost the bottom line as well. So it's being creative and versatile. Yeah, exactly. So Michelle, I've got one little side question here for you because I know you travel quite extensively and Australia is always seen as everything happens here.
The last in the world because we're amazing islands that we all live on. We're backward apparently. Is this true from your travels? Are we the last to or have you seen anything innovative, I can't even say that. Innovative. That you have seen. That Australians have done that the rest of the world hasn't, or is it true?
Are we a little bit behind? Are we following? Are we leaders in some areas?
Michelle: I would say going back, 30 years when I got into the hospitality industry, [00:36:00] we were followers, because back then we didn't have social media. I But more people travel now, and we are no, and I think Australians are the most world travelers anywhere.
We like to get out. We don't, we know it takes us 12 or 13 hours or plus to get somewhere, but when we do, we have a darn good time. So I think we've certainly Changed from a follower to some to a country now that people are looking at us and going, aha. That is, I like how they do it. Yeah. And I've got the chat that I've just had on my podcast this week is in the Mocho group, so it's about these tiny little bars.
He's, they've created this bar that only holds 20 people. Wow. Doesn't everybody wanna be there because it's Instagram worthy. Yes. And it's moving in and out. So I think, that idea of, it's like customer service. Everybody was always, Oh, the customer service in the Americas, but no, I'm sorry it's all right in some parts, but you've got some pretty poor service as well.
I agree. Now they just make you pay [00:37:00] your 18%, but then there are some amazing stuff. But I think the service here. As long as our members and guests realize that we may be a little bit short on staff.
Karyn: We
Michelle: want to provide this excellent service, but just give us that opportunity to make an experience for you.
And knowing that we are doing our very best to be able to afford that. To you, but no, look, I don't see us as follows. People learn from each other, but now we've got that social media interaction as well. We pick up things, but it's also getting out of our heads. What I love to do is I go to a whole lot of other industry conferences, either speaking or attending.
And that's when you hear anything. Oh, I could do that. Or we could do that. Oh, I'll bring that back to my my clothes and it's not copying. No, no. How can we use elements of that design? Yes. To create this wow factor here. That's what I'm going to think about. Yeah. Yeah.
Karyn: It's taking those little bits and applying it to your space and your branding [00:38:00] and your personality as well.
Because personality is the market. Yeah. Because the market here would
Helen: be very different
Karyn: to Europe and America.
Helen: I do
Karyn: love these little pop up bars that we have now, it's like the secret bar. Yeah.
Helen: Yes.
Karyn: It's amazing. I didn't know this was here and that I think in itself is part of the attraction. Absolutely. It's this little door that you think is going to lead down, some dark and dingy Pathway corridor, and you open it up and there's this amazing wow factor.
It's like drawing the curtains, cha, here we go. I love it. Little speaking. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I
Helen: was in Europe with some friends earlier this year and they their son was there and he wanted to go. It was apparently the number one bar paradisio in Barcelona. And it was tiny.
I was, it was behind, the old looks like refrigerator doors. Most amazing, beautiful, designed space. But I think it would only have held maybe 50 or 60 people, [00:39:00] but it was, everybody wanted to go there because they just obviously marketed it so well that it was the number one in the world, but yet it was tiny.
It was great. It was
Michelle: fantastic. But what's interesting is when you see the clients, when they go in there, the customers is they're also respectful of the others that are lining up for the next four hours and so they move through. Through some beautiful fun little bars, hotels, our clubs are a place to go to now for the whole family, whether you're, a group of children, whether you're by yourself and whether you're with your, your couples, it doesn't matter groups, ladies nights out guys gets together.
We've got such an array now within our venues that provides that. Feeling of belonging, which is key, but they feel safe and part of something, our venues are there for our people.
Helen: Yeah, definitely.
Michelle: Yeah. Thank
Helen: you so much for joining us today. Michelle is really interesting. It's
Karyn: great to see you.
[00:40:00] So yeah. Wealth of information. Yes, absolutely. I loved
Michelle: it. It was lovely seeing you both ladies. Fantastic podcast. Let's have a listen and then chuckle and I'm. Thank you for allowing me to share the experience side of things, because if we don't have the training in the frontline teams and the correct leadership, then it's a beautiful building, but nothing else.
Yeah,
Karyn: nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's the soul really. It lacks the soul. Yeah. You're right. That's a good, that's a really good word. Is there anything else coming up for you, Michelle that we should know about that? Oh my goodness.
Michelle: I'm I've, I'm doing a live on LinkedIn I'm going to have you know, you're testing me.
I think it is December at one o'clock all about getting ready for Christmas. I'm sorry. Tips for summer for the for our members and guests and for those that are coming into our venues across the whole hospitality industry that may have only heard about us. [00:41:00] Or I've never been there. How do we create that first impression?
How do we keep each other safe? How do we support each other as a team? So certainly if you're on LinkedIn you'll see that. And of course, summer seasons, all those fun hospitality.
Karyn: It's a very busy time for you. That's for sure. Anyone out there that is interested, we'll put that in the show notes so they can jump in and have a listen.
I'm sure it'll be worth. Listening to, and there'll be some really good tips in there. And we've thoroughly enjoyed your company this morning or this afternoon, I should say, it's been a very interesting day. But yeah, so you take care and I'm sure we'll have you back again because you've got so much to share with all our viewers and listeners.
I should say, see, it's really been a long day. Thanks, Michelle. Have a fabulous weekend.
Helen: Take care girls.
Bye.
[00:42:00]
