Welcome to Two Gins In, a Designer's Perspective. We're your hosts Karyn and Helen both qualified and experienced building and interior designers. So grab your favorite drink as we sit chat and dive into the world of Interior Design and Construction sharing expert insights, trends, creativity and inspiration. Cheers to insightful perspectives with a few laughs along the way
We're so glad to have you join us once again for another informative episode of our podcast to gins in a designer's perspective. Today we have the pleasure of hosting one half of our truly dynamic duo in the world of joinery. It's Carla Condoluci from my joinery, this powerhouse team is led by Carla's creative designs and her husband Joe's meticulous manufacturing and skills that result in individually customized works of joinery art, their commitment to quality service, innovative concept designs and joinery that seamlessly integrates clients lifestyles into every project is what sets them apart. Carla and Joe both pride themselves in not only creating visually stunning pieces, but also ensuring that each design benefits their clients living arrangements in the long term. In today's episode, we delve into the intricacies of managing expectations, emphasizing the value of bespoke design and exploring the importance of investing in quality client and supplier relationships.
So join us as we navigate the fascinating world of joinery with Carla Condoluci gaining insights into the challenges they face in this industry get ready for an enlightening conversation that promises to inspire and inform, offering a glimpse into the creative minds behind my joinery. Hello, and welcome back to the podcast today we have a fabulous guest, our friend Carla from my joinery. So thanks for joining us today. Carla. I'm ready. Thanks for having me.
Welcome. So Carla, you run with your husband and my joinery here in Sydney and have been in business together for a while now. But let's talk a little bit about Carla and how your background and how you ended up being the dynamic designing duo together. So let's hear about Karla first. Okay, so I've always been part of my joinery. So my joinery has been running for over 16 years.
I've always been at the back end, and working elsewhere. Many years ago, I decided to make the change and do a kitchen and bathroom design course, was always involved. But just in the back end, I thought I'd be crazy not to follow my dreams and into the course. Okay, it's perfect. So where did you do that course? Where was that cool. Design Technology Australia. Okay, great. So I did that.
Joe was extremely supportive. It didn't come easy. It was very, very detailed, which was was great for me, because I learned, I thought I knew a lot. But after doing the course, I just learned so much more. And it was like, Whoa, like it was great. You don't realize just what what is actually involved with designing especially kitchens and bathrooms, because there's there's such the intricacies spaces, and the water and layout is really important. You know, you don't know and it's only till you kind of you know, go into it. And you think oh, wow, it's not just Okay, put a cabinet here. Put it up here. Your toilet here. It's there's so much involved. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm grateful that I got to do the course. And I am where I am today could change our life together just that much better. Yeah, yeah, that's great. So talking about working together as a husband and wife team, I'm sure it has its own unique challenges. But I'm sure there's advantages as well. So do you want to share any, you know, behind the scenes stuff, as you sort of, you know, the running of the business together? How does that function from a day to day scenario? Sure. Oh, look, I like to say that we're, you know, the dream team and we don't fight and you know, everything's perfect.
Unfortunately, life isn't like that. No. But for the most part, I love running our business together. I think we have a special dynamic, not only in the workplace, but with our clients as well. Yeah. So it's for us it's, it can be a little crazy, but I think with our success, it's through communication and respect. Always. We I am I am talkative I'm very talkative person and so has come out of his shell since we've kind of worked together but he's more you know, the joinery type that you know, wants the job done right the first time millimetre Perfect. Good to hear!
That's a good a good combination of personalities because you need both you need someone that is going to be communicative, I guess, with the clients and passing on information to the joiner as well. So yeah, both is good. And it's makes it work. I always laugh and Joe's quite a shy person in with his trade. He came first in New South Wales, and I'm like, wow, thatโs amazing that you love your job? You manufacture to perfection. So what's this talk about it? So the one that's, you know, happy to, you know, cheer for him. But obviously, obviously, you are a great combination, because you have been in business together for quite some time. So obviously, it stood the test of time. As Helen said, You're a great communicator, you now have those design skills those years back, and then Joe manufacturing everything to the millimeter, which we love to hear, because joinery is all about the millimeters, isn't it? That's right. And it is and it's about, you know, making sure everything lines up and everything, you know, fits like a glove. Yeah, absolutely.
So whereabouts are you located in Sydney? We're located in Kings grove. Okay. So yeah, we do work all over Sydney. You know, we don't just do local stuff is all over Sydney. So there's so basically, we just we manufacture so kitchens, wardrobes, vanities. Yeah, so all joinery for the house. Okay, nice.
And so do you have designers or architects doing a layout and detailed drawings? So you can make do you do the design yourself? Or do you do sometimes design it and construct it yourself as a package? And sometimes, you know, maybe take the architects plans, their floor plan layout and detail that up for construction? How does that work? What the way we're with builders, we work with architects, we work with designers, and we work for the general public.
It just depends on, you know, who comes in and whether we fit as a team. So for us, it's really not about quantity, it's more about quality. I always say, you know, if we meet you for the first time, whether you're a designer revealed, or if we click, and we can communicate and work together, that's what we love. Yeah.
We want it to be a relationship, not all let's quickly get this done. And no, you can't change that, and blah, blah, blah, like a production line, it'll get you in and get you out and move. And that is not us and how we want to run our business. And that's the way it should be we design, whether you're an architect or building designer, interior designer, or you know, designing kitchens, or any kind of work where you're working closely with a client and a space in their home or their business or wherever it may be, you really do need to have that connection in that relationship, because there's lots and lots of questions, aren't there that you have to ask your client? Yes. And resolve. And like you said earlier, you were surprised at just how much you know, information, how much there was to putting together, you know, a cohesive Yes, space. And the design side of it, the construction side of it, the the building side of it, I like it so much. And it varies from client to client, I'm sure you find that color too, because some people just let Helen and I say we're doing Kitchen and Bathrooms in a home, they'll let us run with it. Whereas other clients will say no, I need to know where my Tupperware is going, I need to know where the knife knives are going. I need to know where the dog foods going. So you have have to be a good communicator and pull information from people because we're all different personalities and expectations are one thing. But if you can't communicate and can't draw that information out of that client who's not giving so much information, and that's fine. You have to you have to know how to handle that and how to then translate that into a kitchen design or a bathroom design, don't you?
And sometimes we find that some people think they've given you enough information. Yes. I want to have to install kitchen and mean lots of things. Exactly. Your interpretation of it is different to mine, which is different to Helens. Yeah, it's pulling out that information and sometimes you know, we don't get that right. You know, we asked for like inspo peaks, you know, color samples that you've got. And sometimes people will give you the inspo peaks and in every inspo pick their candles and they've gone to the end or you know what I don't want to handle. Yeah, yes, you're like might want to highlight that.
So now we actually made that we've changed our approach to go okay, are we doing handles? Yes, we have just you.
In the beginning, it was a little bit like, okay, that's yeah, that's fine. Hamptons, you know, I'd always think in a Hamptons kitchen you you want handled. But yeah, it's just that's pulling everything back and having a checklist and going okay. You know, have we covered this this or that or that? Correct even with even with stone, you know, you see a tiny little sample, we always say to our clients go out and have a look at the big slap. Oh, absolutely we do we do that ourselves, like you just, you know, the three of us can visualize what it's going to look like, because we're in that industry, they definitely can't, and we can see even tones or base colors in in a small sample, whereas they don't. And then they see the big sample the big slab, and oh, I didn't know it had like a gray undertone. And I didn't realize that the veining went all the way through. So that's great. Yeah, great. Communication was a massive thing. And like you said, you've created checklists, we've now we have a like a design brief than we that ask all the questions that we give our clients to fill out. And really the more information that someone can give the designer or the kitchen company, bathroom company, whoever it is builder, architect, the more information you can give about yourself, and how you function on a day to day basis, your likes, your dislikes, it's going to create a design that's actually going to work for you rather than constantly assuming and guessing all the way and still not nailing it, you know, yeah. One other thing that we do is we caught we create a, an 18 point checklist. So this can consist of, you know, your, your, your must have, yes, you know, your wants and your wishful like that you must have. And one of the biggest thing we find, and I do ask the question, and sometimes people get funny about it is a budget.
So, as a kitchen company, we do kitchens, you know, high end kitchens, and we do you know, your medium kitchen, your budget is going to see what I can offer you exactly. So if I if you've told me you want, you know, natural stone, and then go Oh, is that how much it is? Yeah, got it, the more information and the honest you are we can deliver? Absolutely. You know, not only that you're proud of we're proud of because we you know, teach, you know, everything or most of the things on the 18 point checklist, the checklist. So yeah, for us, there's a lot of pulling information. And sometimes the client is not always sure of what they want.
That's my job in our company is to get that right, or to try to get that right now. That's and you know, we would have said this in other episodes in Illinois is the client in the end, we walk away so we can design only based on what we gain from the relation, the working relationship. So in the end, we walk away, it's your home, it's your kitchen, it's your bathroom, it has to be about you not solely, like we bring the skills to the table and going to college together fine tune that from our expertise and knowledge and years of being in the industry. But it's a it's about the end use really the client in the end. And sometimes, you know, when they suggest something you can, for example, only last year, we had a client come in, and they'd already picked the best stone, which was a beautiful, natural, warm stone. And they said, Oh, we want a black kitchen. And I'm like, how do you want black? And they were pretty fixed. And I'm like, can I just show you some you know, warmer? You know, whether it be like a we end up going with a politic, wood, wood mass. Yeah. And they were like adamant. No. And I'm like, can I just show you, I'll take it to you know, your house. You know, let's play around with that. And then we finished it before Christmas. And they were just so happy. They were like, we couldn't be happier that you didn't talk us into that you talked us into going back and going like a chocolate.
That goes back to what you said before. They don't really know what they want. They they know.
Well, they've seen it somewhere else works beautifully. It's either in a photo on Pinterest or on the block or wherever it may be. And they've seen it they've gone I really liked that. Look, I want that, but then they don't pick the stone and then it doesn't work. Yeah. And we say to clients as well. Another thing that you might even find happens to you is these big appliance companies might have a sale to move on some stuff. So they have this massive package deal. And they purchase all the appliances and then store it and then two years later or a year later, they decide that they're going to design their kitchen and the layout or the space that they have to work within. They may have gotten a wall oven and it just doesn't work. Yeah
And then and you're limited now by the appliances, zit you've already posed. And so you can't really get the most out of the space unless they then sell them off, and then purchase a lot of new. So the next thing that we wanted to ask you, which I feel like you've already kind of answered it in conversation, and that is what sets your joinery business apart from other, you know, kitchen companies, bathroom companies, in terms of like craftsmanship, or specialization in anything, like, I understand that you've already sort of explained that, that you've taken on a design course, and that your husband is very meticulous with his workmanship and craftsmanship, and that you're going over quality rather than just churning them out in quantity, which is huge, which definitely does set you apart, because businesses like that, in your industry are difficult to find. And if you ever come across somebody that that does pay attention to detail and, and, and functionality and quality, you need to run with it. But is there anything else that you find that kind of sets you apart? It could be a particular style that you've nailed, it could be I don't know anything? Or is it just a general attach? What I believe sets us apart is I feel like it's an experience with us. It's not just like, you know, thank you very much. Here's your kitchen, it's the whole package. So with Joe and I come into the initial consultation, where he would go out and you know, check the wall, check the plans, check the flooring, check the ceiling height, and I will have those discussions about you know, how you live your life, you know, have kids how many people in this household. So it's an experience from the beginning. And so many of our clients are like, and not to blow my own trumpet or anything like that, you go ahead and do that, go ahead and do that. Not even about that is I I love to go out and you know, see the clients and do my best and I do still get excited over handles. And yes, and you know, whether it's tap ware, or whether it's you know, what stash or you know, doors are we going to do? So I am completely invested. And about the overall experience, and then you know, we come back, Joe and I will come back and you know, fight it off. And if it's all good Chicago, then we start on the design together. So we offered then Joe will be like, you know, I know we said this, but how about this? And I'll be like, are you okay, can we can we curve that? You know? Yeah, but there's always that, you know, two heads better than one? Yes. So, and for me, it's we both are on the same page with every job.
Unless Joe's working with a particular builder. That's not a designer that I don't really need to know about that. Yeah, it's about and then the manufacturer Joe's Joe is on tools as well. He's not just you know, in the office and then the manufacturer at the manufacturing side, obviously our boys are trained just like Joe and then installing we don't hire other installers to
to go and install our work because it's not just about manufacturing. You can have an installer that will completely mapped out for you. Yeah, yeah. For us. It's the whole package. And then we do offer our trades like plumbers, electricians, painters, and we have had clients that have used their own stonemason, but I do have to point out, we use an amazing stonemason, and he knows how we work. So we are live later perfect. We have clients where they've like my neighbor has used this stonemason, and you know, he's $1,000 cheaper than yours. I'm gonna go with him. And I'm like, and this is something we have to get better at. Because we like we don't want people to think Oh, no, you have to use our trades. Yeah, but no, when we work with a trade day in day out, and we, you know, our we've got high expectations. They know what we expect. They've got the same, you know, work ethic.
Seamless. Yeah. It's been a few times where, you know, clients have got their own stonemasons and they've gone all let's not do 40 Let's do 20 millimeters. That changes everything. Are you joking?
No, I've gone back and I'm like, Let's have a meeting with your stonemason. I will. You're not doing 20 You're doing 40 And yes, the way we were initially going to do it, because obviously everything's measured. Set for that. Yeah, absolutely. So like, doesn't it we you know, understanding the gear you can see where the clients coming from thinking, okay, every single dollar counts, but what they don't understand is potential for mistakes. Yeah, what's to go wrong? You might be $1,000 Better off here, but then you know, you've already quoted the pro-objects. So if you're having to change all the joinery and everything, you need to be reimbursed for your extra time and energy in changing that. And also, you don't know what could go wrong, tried and tested these people, you have faith in them, you're putting your company and your navigation station, you're aligning with another business that is equally reputable as yourself so that the client needs to understand that once you bring that other party in, things could go wrong. It might work out but things could go wrong. If it does work out, even another client did the same thing just before Christmas gaps, which is so big, and I just and the join was the head the backsplash and the join was right.
It'll and I've just said you know what, that doesn't cut it. You have to pull that out. Like if it was my kitchen. And I think I can't just walk away that stone actually got nothing to do with me anymore. I think it was my kitchen. I'd get them to do it all again. It's just like, yes. And so that $1,000 reflecting back to that is cost more. That's right, that 1000s Changing two to three, all the time in cost, the time, effort. And the arguments that
I was actually when I saw it started, I cried. I'm like, oh, what has happened? And I honestly just get it just just get a change. It's a lot of money being invested into look at that every single day when you're in that space. It's just it's not Yeah, yeah. And we've worked with quite a few join, join us over the years. And there's always the ones that are like yourselves that that that take such pride in your work and take the time and the effort into getting it right and are really invested in their their work. And if you're that proud of your work, and that invested, you know, you're gonna get a good job. Absolutely. And these joiners will probably like yourself, contact us if there's obviously when you finally get on site and you measure up there could be a wall that aplomb or maybe it's a budget thing and what you've designed, they might want to modify slightly, which always happens.
Yeah, exactly. And you've got to have that flexibility. But the good joiners will always call us and say even if it's just moving something, you know, five millimeters or three as a fraction, they always call us and say, Look, this is this is what we're planning on doing. We're trying not to change the style and the concept. However, this is going to be better if we do it this way. And reasonable most of the time. That's respectful what we've done. Yeah, absolutely. But we also trust them, you know that they're, they're not just doing that because they want to cut corners or because it's cheaper for them. If it's cheaper, it means it's cheaper for the client, but they're not out to kind of sabotage the client. Yeah, yeah. And that's the biggest thing with us. We're not into, we don't want to go back and fix something. You don't get us. Even all our hardware. We've had clients that have gone off, have you considered using, you know, cheaper hardware?
And we're like, no, no, you want quality? Yeah, go to somebody like yourself, if you want a quick fix or a change, just go to get sanded. And yeah, I totally get what you pay for. But one thing I do like when you're building a house and joinery is one of the last things and it's all good. And well at the beginning when you have money and you think, Oh, yes, I'll do this. And I'll do that. And you know, if things go wrong, you're like, No, I'll fix it. When it comes to joinery. It's the law is quite expensive. And it's the thing so people do run out of money. Yes.
And it's and it's hard, because so many times I'd be like, Oh, I'd love to give you a natural stone or you know, but unfortunately, it's not in the budget budget. And if there's some advice I could give to our clients work out your kitchen early on. So yes, money aside, yes. You don't have to compromise to compromise on something. But you know, you don't have to compromise on the big things that you want. Yeah, exactly. And it's we had a client a couple of years ago lovely couple and they were pretty switched on with the whole industry and things like that and they had a budget and what they wanted it was like a full renovation and but what they wanted like I said, this is your budgets not going to cut it and they weren't Yes, we understand we've got a little bit to play with but they didn't sort of disclose that but throughout the process there was so much joinery like yes, so much and I didn't even know the amounts of joinery like floor to ceiling like a full library room floor to ceiling cabinetry and there were high ceilings and it was timber veneers, not just laminate and fell and constantly all the way through.
I'm going this is an expensive price. not look, I can see it pulling back to here's an alternative in our laminate, she's always Norton Yeah, and we don't want standard shells, we want all different shapes and sizes. And so not only was the design more time consuming, which I've from a creative, more than happy to do it, and it would have looked fabulous, massive, massive kitchen. I'm wanting all natural, like real timber. And I just I'm like, this is just unlike both of us. Keep war every morning remeeting was the budget, the two of us going, okay, they must have some money set aside somewhere because it didn't matter how many times we said it just the end result, the finishes was very, very high end. So it goes back to what you said, Carla, you need to have a budget, and you need to discuss that openly and honestly, with your designer from the get go. And it's not that we're going to design beyond that budget, we need to know what the limitations are. And if that conversation out, yeah, if that had happened, then it wouldn't have been timber than it is it would have been lemonades and that's, that's fine, we can still achieve a certain look and work within budget. So I'm sure you do that quite often. So that's gonna lead us to our next question. You know, most people don't want something a little bit different, something unique. Everyone wants something personalized and bespoke. So can you share any examples of any projects that you've incorporated bespoke joinery or any emerging trends? Also, maybe if you could tap down to the end of your answer is what's what's happening out there in the joinery industry for 2024. And beyond. There's lots of things happening in the joinery industry, we're seeing a lot of curve curves. I mean, a lot of the kitchens that we have, like on our board are very much curved. The reason? Is the battens still quite strong.
And once again, when we do our initial consultation, it's kind of like we asked the question of, you know, what, you know, what are you after? What, what kind of style you're looking at? So we've we've, yeah, so basically, yeah, a lot of a lot of curves in betters, I mean, everything we do is bespoke. So we can, you know, we do a lot of hospital, okay. No, house is the same. No, so And no, fun. That's good.
Having a discussion with one of our clients yesterday, they had an issue with, so they're building, they're renovating their house, and they don't want to get rid of their fridge, if it is big and deeper than a normal size. And I said, it's no matter how many kitchens are designed, no problem is the same. Exactly. layout is the same. You can have a similar layout. But you know, you've got to work out what what you can fit in and with the style. And there was one section, it was kind of like a walkway. And in the end, there was this, there was this oval window, that half of it had to be blocked, right? It wasn't an it was an arched window. Okay. Like, well, can we keep the window for light from floor to ceiling? And maybe put some frosted glass just to let the light in that light? Yeah. But instead of doing so the other option was to kind of just do an L shape. But I thought What did the L shape achieve? What do we get? What are we gaining? And I said, you know, the natural light would be would be more beneficial, and then not.
So what so I'm just trying to activate it that's very bespoke. So like that, you know, you've you've looked at the benefits of keeping that window and working with your clients in achieving a great look, great result and but still working with an element that's there. So that's what the spokes are about. It's not really that's a perfect example of like a work in progress. You start with a design, you start with an idea. And then once you get into the nitty gritty of it, and you're used to the design evolves, and then you come across these little challenges, I guess. Challenges. Yeah, everyone Yeah. And to be able to discuss with your joiner, the design and go okay, we've got a couple of options, we block in half the window, or we utilize it and get rid of that corner. And it's up to Yourself and us as designers to point these things out. Because our clients don't see that no, they don't, they don't, they don't, they're not doing day in and day out. That's why they're there, you know, engaging our services. So it's up to us to help them and guide them I guess three options and point out the pros and the cons so that they can actually make those informed decisions and ended up with a result. And quite often sometimes when you do come across things like that sometimes the outcome is actually better than what the initial concept or what the initial agree but
Plan was and they go actually, this is this is kind of cool. I like this. Yeah, working with it and and holding their hand and guiding them. And It seriously is so nice to have a joinery company that does all of that. Yeah, exactly. And like I said, from the beginning, we want it to be an experience. And for us, like we've doing bespoke work, sometimes, like, I'll say, I'm just gonna sit on that, or I might have an idea, and then I'll change it. And then we might go back to the other idea and be like, you know, what do the whole 360 is a team effort. And it's, we want the best, you know, storage solution that we can create for you, and then obviously, manufacture it to perfection. Yeah.
And we always we try, and we always stay with the trends, we got some amazing relationships with our suppliers. And I was just going to ask you that, how do you because there's so many new things that come into our world as designers, and particularly, you know, nine times out of 10. For us, there's a kitchen and a bathroom going on? And for you, that's what you do. So if there's a lot happening all the time, so how do you keep on top of what's new? If there's you can spend hours days researching and attending showrooms yourself? So it's a big thing, isn't it to be current and up to date and know exactly what's coming? And you know, where to apply that? And, yes, so we have, we have a lot of reps that come and visit us, which is handy, because we don't always have the time to go out.
And but we do we we will go to like if there's a show of so we'll go to the show. And I and then like if we see, you know, for instance, we've been to a show when we visited long, and we've been at Fenway so and we saw some new things that were there that we hadn't seen before. And now Brett will come up and show us. So Fenway came and did a demonstration here that we got to see the new pivot doors
was good for our boys to see it not just Joe and I, yes, we were going to use them they came in and train the boys on how to install them and how to navigate that stuff. We continue. I mean, because it's always an evolving, yes. Oh, gosh, yeah, yeah, you do have to stay on top of it. And like I said, we have really good relationships with our reps. So you know, they'll come and have a coffee. And then we're like, right, what's new? What?
So it is really important for us that we stay on top of that, just so. And I get excited over a new draw and be like, oh, you know? Yeah, so for us, it's it's continual learning, isn't it? So I think we're about to learn what's happening, obviously, with the banning of silica. Yes. So there's lots of new things happening in that space, as we need to be across that. So I'm going to turn of havoc. Yeah, I'm sure there was a lot of panic going on.
Around when that first came out, because I'm thinking how what what are all these stonemasons going to do like a hat? What joinery companies like, you know, and that makes it even harder for you at this stage, like in the transition age, because people have a really hard because of what are your options? Exactly. There are a few few new things coming onto the market that obviously we'll all hear about. So but yeah, as Helen said, it's hard. It's transition we'd like at the end of last year, we had to go and reserve quite a few slabs for all different jobs because it has to be installed by and is it go? Is that job going to be ready before then. So it's very Yeah, it's a transaction phases. And how are you finding that? Here we're finding it like just we install, we've got a I'm just looking at my board. Now our job in Rose Bay. So basically, the stone that they picked for the Alfresco area is no longer available. But they've gone porcelain. And it was just a little bit of a stressful time because I really wanted that it's not available quick. And once again, it's sure enough looking for a tiny little sample. I'm like go and have a look at it.
And nine times out of 10 we will tell our clients to pick their stone first and then everything will blow through from that. So there's a few jobs of ours that just paused Yeah, waiting to see. They're like oh, did we rush it through and just go with that and try and reserve a slab or do we so a few of them are waiting, wait and see. But then that will come down to Helen and I'm making new selections.
Right? It's all it's all going back to that and starting again. Yeah, definitely. So a bit of backtracking but anyway, interesting times ahead with that thing might come out that a lot better and more practical and benefit the health and safety as stonemasons as well
So that's right. I mean, I wouldn't want my husband to be working. Be safe. So that's the way I like because a lot of customers kind of don't understand and they're like, put yourself in their shoes. Exactly. And then, yeah, answer that question. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. Put yourself or your family in that situation and end up with a completely different answer.
them to be fairly protected and safe. And some people I guess, like smoking some people go on. Okay, I'll just take my chances. And there's not much you can do, guys. I have to be responsive. No changes. Now there's a cut off day. Yeah, sometimes. That's exactly right. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for joining us today.
Carla we'd love to chat in the show notes with your company details. So if anyone would like to reach out to color, you're thinking of kitchens and bathrooms in Sydney. Carla is your girl. And thank you so much. I hope I was insightful for you and your you definitely would. Definitely informative and a lovely chat. So I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that are thinking about their next project. And you've given them some really good tips and things to think about. And that's what we're all about is educating the people out there and getting them to really understand what's involved with their projects. And it's not not so simple and straightforward. There's a lot of a lot of components that they really need to work on and get right exactly where they're going to have achieved a really good outcome. Exactly. So thanks.
Thanks for joining us on the Two Gins In design podcast. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode and insights on the world of design and construction. We look forward to our next episode with more design inspiration, tips from the experts, and a behind the scenes look at our latest projects. If you want more design information, or simply want to check out our portfolio of projects, visit our website at https://www.mcraeandlynch.com.au/ and our Instagram @ and feel free to reach out to us on our social media channels if you have any comments, questions, or even topics you'd like us to discuss and please don't forget to leave us a rating and review. Thanks again for listening. And if you've enjoyed this episode, we'd love you to share it with your friends and family. We look forward to catching up with you on our next episode. Have a great weekend. Cheers
