HK ep 20
Welcome to Two Gins In, A Designer's Perspective. We're your hosts, Karen and Helen, both qualified and experienced building and interior designers. So grab your favorite drink as we sip, chat, and dive into the world of interior design and construction, sharing expert insights, trends, creativity, and inspiration.
Cheers to insightful perspectives with a few laughs along the way.
Welcome everyone to Two Gins In, um, I'm Helen and Karen's here with me and today we are recording our, uh, podcast on kitchens. It's our second part to our three part series. We've already published our first part, so if you haven't. Yeah, listen to that one and you want to go back and have a listen. About appliances.
Yeah. The importance of selecting those. That's right. So we started off talking about kitchens in general and we kind of ended up on mainly focusing on appliances because there's so much to know about kitchens and there's so much involved in it that we've decided that we'll go into a little bit more detail in specific areas, which is why we've now got a three part series.
So today is when we're talking about, um, the functionality and aesthetics, which are two of the most most important aspects to consider when you're designing a kitchen. So it's really essential that the kitchen layout encourages efficient workflow, and that it also provides you enough functional space for cooking and entertaining.
And at the same time, the design should really be aesthetically pleasing, but also creating an inviting atmosphere that complements its purpose and the rest of your home as well. Now, let's not forget that. So when you're considering a kitchen's functionality, it's really important to make sure that all the necessary elements are included and that they are easily accessible.
So we need to include adequate Bench space. We need storage solutions. We need the right appliances that suit your lifestyle and cooking. The other thing, really important, Karen, is what? It's bench space. Well, as you and I say, it's actually, well really, it's like prime real estate. It is. In any kitchen and it should be sufficient to accommodate, you know, the tasks of meal preparation, cooking and entertaining when our kids were little, there was even room enough to do homework.
Yep. That's always really. prevalent when you've got a young family and whoever's trying to cook, entertain children at the same time. So having enough space for that. Um, islands, kitchens, islands are a great, great way to add extra bench space as well. And that creates a space for socializing and entertaining.
And the size of the island should always, shouldn't it Helen, always be proportionate to the size of your kitchen. Definitely. And it should not overwhelm or overcrowd the space. I think some people can get carried away with an island bench and not consider dimensions and set outs. I guess that's something that we can talk about.
later, maybe in the next episode, um, a bit more on that. Yeah, definitely. Um, like we have designed kitchens where our client has chosen not to have an island, island bench because they wanted to incorporate a lovely big dining table. And it wasn't their thing. Their kids were growing up and it wasn't their thing to have, um, that.
Island space. And they didn't want that dominating their kitchen. So the majority of kitchens we design these days do have an island bench, but it isn't necessary. But like Karen said, make sure that it is proportionate to your kitchen as well. So Bye. When you're designing a kitchen, it can be pretty exciting, but it's also a daunting task because there are so many elephants in the kitchen.
Get rid of that elephant in the room. So many elements to consider. So it's important that you Stay organized throughout the whole process of design and ensure that all safety regulations are met. Now possibly the general public don't really think about what kind of safety regulations and elements there are.
So I guess they're relying on either their kitchen company or their designer to point those out. But for those designing kitchens in Australia, there are some specific standards that we really should follow and it may be a little bit different in other countries but a lot of these standards, Karen, aren't they, they're pretty much common sense.
Oh, I couldn't agree more. And I think the dimensions, the standards are what you and I base every kitchen from. There's flexibility around it with heights and depths depending on how much space that we have. But why don't we just give an overview of standards. and how things are set out. Let's start with the ground up.
Let's start from the very beginning. That's a very good place to start. Let's start with the floor. This might be a little bit kind of tedious for some of you because, let's face it, we're talking, you know, Numbers. Numbers here, but it is really important and it is really valuable that you have an understanding of the standards and what you should be allowing for because When we've worked with clients in the past, you know, they're trying to fit everything in to sometimes a tight space and depending on the thoroughfare of your kitchen, which I think we touched upon in our first podcast, you know, you can have three or four entrance Areas.
Mm-Hmm. or points, entrance points to your kitchen that you need to really consider that thoroughfare. So, but if you don't follow the dimensions yes. It comes down to millimeters. It does. And you've really got to make sure that there's enough flow Absolutely. Um, to function properly, definitely within your kitchen.
So let's go. Okay. So we call it the kickboard or the skirting of the kitchen. Yep. Some people who, yep. Might be in the industry, might think of it as a skirting, but we call it the Kickboard. Mm-Hmm. . This height can range from 100. Let's talk in millimeters. We're here in Australia. Yeah. So 100 to 200 mils.
Um, if you in height in heights, yes. But if you choose to do 200 mil. You can make use of that kickboard space. So we've done that in the past. We've had used that space for, you know, with those magnetic pushes, a little secret little secret drawer for shallow things like baking trays and, um, you know, other narrow things.
So it's a. it's a spot that can also be used for storage. Yeah. I wouldn't do it if you're in the 100ml zone, as we said, 200ml. It's too shallow. It's way too shallow. Sometimes they've got these um, little gadgets that you can purchase where you've got little like tractor, I guess, under the skirting, where it goes into like a little, I guess, like a dustpan.
Yes. Style set up where you can just. Sweep under there. Mm-Hmm. . Personally, I wouldn't do that. I dunno if I'd want to do that. And I, I do like the tray storage idea though. If you've got that high skirting, that kickboard. Yeah. Um, skirting kickboard. Yeah. Because if it's too, if your skirting is too late, you've also gotta consider when you're cleaning and mopping the, I digress a little bit here, Karen.
When you're mopping the floor, you don't want your mop to be hitting the cupboard door. The face of the joint. If you can avoid it. And that's what the kickboard is for as well. So it needs to be durable, hard wearing. As you just said, you're not digressing. It's practical. The broom, the mop, the vacuum are going to hit that.
Exactly, yeah. So we've kind of found, we've generally kind of keep them around about 120, don't we? That seems to be a kind of happy medium, I guess. It's high enough to sort of keep the base of the cupboard off the floor at a decent height and also maximise the space. Because the higher the kickboard is, you're taking that amount of space from drawer out of your storage.
Exactly. Unless you're including it in your cleaning. Right. So the next thing is benchtop height. Ideally here we do 900mm. Yeah. That's kind of standard. Standard. And plus or minus 20 mil. Some clients, particularly, we've had clients in the past who are quite tall, so we've taken it up to 950. But if you do do that, you need to be very mindful of what dishwasher that you're putting in there.
Because if you do take it up to the 950, most dishwashers are designed to sit under a 900 mil bench. So you could resolve that by putting the dishwasher on a plinth, which is probably not so practical for delivering in and out. You also want your dishwasher to line up with the bottom of the cupboards, and the top of the cupboards.
So, yeah. Exactly. So consider that if you are going to take it higher, that most dishwashers are designed to sit under the top of the cupboards. That nine mil, 900 mil height. It's catching, isn't it, Karen . It's catching people must be used to us tripping over our work every week. That's the ideal height. Um, and that height can also be adjusted depending on the thickness of the bench top, but that's a whole other conversation.
Yeah, so I. I guess with the bench top height, ideally the top is at 900. So, and that's 900 from the finish floor level. That is really important. So, whatever flooring you've got, you need to consider if it's a renovation and you're going over the top. top of, say, some tiles and you don't want to rip them up and you're putting in, like, maybe a floating timber floor or whatever, you need to take that measurement from the finished floor to the very top of the benchtop.
Correct. The makeup in between that is the Depending on the thickness of your benchtop, depending on the height of your skirting and whatever is remaining is your cupboard space or drawer space or dishwasher space. So be mindful. I've noticed too, Karen, with a lot of the jobs that we're doing lately, a lot of people are wanting to go a little bit higher than the 900.
So 920 seems to be more popular. And that doesn't have a huge impact on the dishwasher. No, it's amazing how 20 mil sometimes can make a difference to the comfort of the house. It can pose a problem when you have somebody that's very tall and somebody that's very short. We actually did a kitchen for a chef.
Oh, we did. Um, and they both were good cooks and he was very tall and she was very short and he wanted all the bench heights to be, I think he was like 950 or something. But then we did a drop down area for her, didn't we? Yeah, in the butler's pantry. We created our own little kitchen in there. So, but another thing that we'll talk about, too, is if you go too high with your benchtop, that means your overhead cupboards are going to sit higher, but we'll talk about that, I guess, when we're talking about the, is it your next point?
Bench top depth, so sorry. Okay, so quite right. The standard is 600 mil. Yeah. In some instances we've taken this out to 700 mil if there's enough room. So it's all about the floor plan, how much space we've got to work with as to the depth of that. Yeah. Um, a tip is making the bench deeper takes the fridge depth into consideration, particularly if you want that flush line look because that'll cover, you know, the depth of the handles and things like that.
Another point. is downdraft, uh, with your cooktops. We've installed those in a few kitchens. Yep. And you have to bring the 750 to allow for that downdraft. So a downdraft is basically like your range hood, but it's instead of being a hood and sitting above, it sits in, in, it's like a vent, I guess. It's an exhaust that sits at the back of your cooktop.
Yes. Uh, some cooktops now have an inbuilt downdraft as part of the Cooktop. Um, which is kind of clever and it does come in handy as well if you've got a cooktop on an island bench, which generally, not my favorite thing, I prefer to avoid, um, but again, it's every, every design is individual and every space is individual and maybe that's the only space that you have with the depth, you'll find a lot of units because I know my daughter's was one stage hunting for a unit, and a lot of the bench tops are about 500 to 550 in the older units.
The old, yes. Because they're small kitchens. Yes. Not the most practical, but again, there's no hard and fast rule about the depth having to be 600mm, but you'll find a lot of the appliances and things nowadays are set to I'm going to say it is. You need 600mm. If you're buying all brand new appliances, you don't want them sitting forward of that bench.
No. No. And I give you. I guess we'd be, I guess, well, yeah, you don't want to go less than that. But if you're, if you're in a unit that has a, you know, a 500, 550, which is really not uncommon in a lot of the units. You need a new bench top. Well, if you can't afford to renovate it and that's all you've got, you might not have, some of them are really narrow, but what you'll find is they'll have freestanding ovens and cook, combination ovens, cooktops.
and they sit out at about 700. Not a common thing that we see. Yes, I agree they are in units, but if you're doing a brand new kitchen, 600 mil is your go to. It is, yeah. Okay, so the next one is island bench top depth. Depth. These can vary from 600, 750, 900 mil to 1200 mil. So one point is if you want to sit at an island bench, you need to set it out with a minimum of 900.
1200 is ideal, as we said. Um, The 900 mil allows for cabinet if you're tight on space. Mm-Hmm. allows for cabinetry on one side or the dishwasher, and then on the other side, if you want to sit up to that bench, you need three 50 to 400 mils for the stool. Well, your knees, your knees to go under because you can't.
Yeah. Otherwise you'll be sitting sideways as your island bench. So don't go below the three 50 mil if you are setting out an island bench and you've got cabinetry on the other side. Yeah. Another tip is you can make them too big, like if you know Mm-Hmm. , if you have plenty of floss. space to play with.
Don't make the mistake of filling it with a massive huge island bench that is awkward to clean. You'll quite often see them in the American, um, renovation shows. These huge, and I, I look at them and I think, I, I'm not overly tall. I'd have to get up on a stool and climb. Why can't you climb up and climb?
Visualizing you on your hands and knees on top of the bench. Just be mindful that you've got to clean from both sides. And 1200 mils is great. Yeah, you kind of don't want to go too deep, but also, um, you know, 1100 to 1200 is probably what is common, and you've also got to consider the size of the, if you're going with a slab, a natural stone slab or a reconstituted stone slab, which we'll get into a little bit later because there's been some changes there in Australia, but a lot of the slabs are.
quite big now, so that you don't have that join in them, whether it's porcelain or stone. 3200 is the biggest slab we can get. Yeah. So I think the point that I was going to make was, if you've got a 600 deep cupboard, which is kind of standard, you might want to go 700 deep, but then you've, Drawers for 700 are pretty okay, because you can pull the drawers out, but if it's just a cupboard space, the deeper you go, the harder it is that it's going to reach to cover things at the you can get into mechanisms, and there's so many out there, but.
Yeah, that's true. I think now there'll be episode four, talking about all the wonderful things you can harness, corner cupboards, and whatever. But if you're at an island bench, we often have. Karen mentioned two sets of cupboards. One at the face, the functional cupboard that's sort of face, ooh, there's my ring against my chin that faces the, you know, the main working area bench space.
And then the other side where you've got your three 50 to 400, um, millimeter gap for your knees. So the cupboards. back. You need the face of the island bench to the back of the cupboards on the other side. It could be anything from 300 to 500, sometimes 600, depending on how deep your bench is. Utilising the space is what we do.
Yeah. So we'll put cupboards on that side. But what we don't like to see. Handles. They're meant to be secret. They're meant to be, wow, we've made the most of the space. Exactly. And if you're sitting there with your knees under the oven. You don't want to catch your knees on the handle or the knobs. It just looks weird.
It does. And there's push catch latches that you can, little magnetic things, and it'll just look like you've got a lovely panel there with a secret cupboard. It's a great place to store vases or glassware that you don't, cocktail glasses and things like that, that you don't use. It's not your everyday use, but a great place.
Utilization of that space. Yeah. Okay. So what's the next one? Um, benchtop thickness. Okay. So this can be anything pretty much that's, you know, within reason, of course. So you've got, so it really depends on the material that you're using for your benchtop and the design aesthetic that you're looking for.
So for example, laminate, which was kind of the common thing, which is a little less common now in the main kitchen area, we might use laminate in a butler's pantry or just to reduce. the cost. It usually comes in 33 mm thickness because you've got your board and then you've got the laminate that sits on top.
Um, and then the edge strip, which is usually PVC, comes in certain, um, thicknesses as well. So you kind of need to you know, stick to those standards. Engineered stone is generally, um, it's, the slabs are generally 20 mm, 20 mm thick. In saying that, you can miter them at the corner and create a 40 mm, which is 40 mm are probably the most popular.
Sometimes on your island bench, you might want to go with 100 mm or whatever, depending on the look, the look of the design. And that's just, you can go as. as deep as you want because you're mitering the corner. So when you talk about engineered stone, we are going to talk about that in another episode because there has been a ruling here in Australia on engineered stone.
So yes, because it's not, um, because there's silica in it. Yeah, and being harmful to, not, not the finished product. No. Because the finished product is fine, it's harmful to the stonemason, stonemason and the way they cut it. So the 1st of July next year, 2024, when this episode is out in 2024, but we're here recording in 23.
Yeah. Um, no longer engineered stone will, is being banned here in Australia. So it's a world first. So we, we as designers are a little bit ahead of the curve. So we're going to be having a chat with one of the major stone suppliers on what's to come for Australia here. So, and what the implications are to people that are in this kind of in between that have already.
selected their stone, um, or have literally just a few of our projects, we've had to put them on hold because the ruling is not until mid year next year. So they're allowing those projects to flow through. So if you're in that transition period, like there's one client that we've got at Gymea Bay, um, I've been chatting to her, she's going to wait to see what's coming out.
The other thing is. which has been trending of late anyway, is the porcelain slabs. So they're on trend and they come down to quite narrow. They're 12 mil. So yeah. So they can be 20 mil, but they quite often Which is a beautiful sort of European sleek look to it. So if you are on the cusp of making a decision, either hold it off.
Or you'll have to have your kitchen engineered stone installed, well and truly, by the 1st of July. Has to be before the 1st of July. Yeah. So there are other narrower porcelain slabs, some are in 3 6mm. Remember that kitchen that we did and we had the porcelain actually on the fronts of the cupboards? Yes, that's an interesting thing with the porcelain because it does come in narrow.
It's basically like a porcelain tile but in slab form. Exactly. If they're thin, like a three to six mil, you, like Karen said, you can fix them to the face of your drawer if that's, if that's not the kitchen that you want. Or your outdoor kitchen would be great for an outdoor kitchen. Yeah. If it's, if it is in the harsh sunlight.
Well, that was the other thing too, with the engineered stone, you couldn't use it. No, because the resins aren't yellow in the sun. Yeah. So we'd often have to, um. We'd do concrete. We've done concrete. Either do concrete or get a porcelain slab. sort of either match them up or pick a complementary color stone to match for your outdoor kitchen.
Okay, so another dimension set out to talk about is the space between a bench top, for example. If an island bench sits opposite your cooktop zone, like a galley style kitchen you're referring to. Yeah, so the space should 1200 mils. I had one client quite a few years ago who almost argued the point with me.
And I said, well, your dishwasher will be open. Someone will be walking past. And so she brought it down to 900 and then regretted the decision. And she had like quite a big living room coming off that. So I didn't understand her, her logic, but the, you know, that 1200 meals between, you know, the island bench and the work space, at least.
As I've said, you can open that dishwasher, someone can walk past, you could be standing to the side of it, unloading. 1200 is ideal. That's an Australian standard. Especially like Christmas time. Hey, like we've just all had Christmas here and busy, busy kitchen spaces. The kitchen is always the most crowded space.
I don't think I stepped out of it really for four, four hours. No, it's, it's, it needs, I would say, cocktails, which is quite nice. Oh, that's all right. I was like, Washing. Oh, thank you, Gavin, for another good one. Gavin was quite good. Well, it's always like if you're stuck in the kitchen and it's usually hot here in Australia and with ovens and all sorts of things and stovetops running.
Functionality is key to getting those meals out. Yeah. So you need to have enough bench space to sit your cocktail and prepare food as well. So. Yeah. It, yeah. That flow is really, really important. And that, that dimension applies to other shape kitchens, like a U shaped kitchen as well. Yeah. Between any workspace, you really should have 1,200 mL, particularly if you've got a fridge that's.
Anything that has something that opens, like a fridge door, an oven door, a dishwasher, as Karen mentioned earlier, or if it's a main thoroughfare, even if there aren't, well, don't forget you've got drawers. Most kitchens have drawers, don't they? Cupboard doors, whatever, but you want to be able to also have If someone's working at the bench, someone to be able to walk past without having to step out of the space to let somebody else in.
So the next point is clearance between bench top and the overhead cupboards. As you mentioned before, you need to be mindful if you are going to take your bench top higher, your overhead cupboards have to follow. So you need, what is it, a minimum of 600 mil space between the top of your bench top to the underside of your overhead cupboard.
If you have a gas cooktop, that's something different. You have to bump it up to 650 ml. Now gas is being, here's another rule in Australia. Oh, they're trying to phase gas out. In Victoria, I think we've actually mentioned it in other episodes, that it's phased out in Victoria. Any new builds can't have gas cooktops.
So that's interesting, uh, that will show how that's going to pan out. But anyway, um, there's going to be a lot of unhappy people. But yes, just, oh, the other thing too, with the overhead cupboards, Karen, is the depth of the overhead cupboard. So why can't we have a nice deep overhead cupboard, Karen?
Basically, if it was deep and you're standing at the cooktop and you go to open something, or Not even open it. If, if it's too deep then access to the back of the cooktop your vision is impaired. Mm. Because the overhead covers are literally fitting out too far. Yeah. So you want, you want to keep those, as you said, no, no deeper than 400 meals.
I guess if you take, if you've got a deeper bench top underneath, like say you've taken that out to 700, you, it's proportion. Yeah. If it's 700, you could probably get away with 400, but I wouldn't four 50. Well, you don't want it too deep anyway, even if you do have a deep because how are you going to reach, because it's up high.
So how do you reach the back of the cupboard? So 400 is a good standard. And 400 I would only use if you did have a deep bench top. And then yeah, you've got to consider, sometimes you'll go deeper. Like for example, if, if you've got a lot, a very high ceiling and you're taking your overhead cupboards up, then sometimes we'll bring the top cupboards out.
Under deep to line up with the benchtop. Yes, and sit the ones basically From the bench height to to literally over your head and break that space up But the only reason you'd only need you have to access the top cover. Yeah, I'm with a Ladder a step ladder of some sort, but again, we do a bulkhead over It's it's just making the most of storage and exactly things like Christmas decoration stuff that you're not going to pull out.
Exactly. Yeah use on a day to day basis. Pretty good. So as I said, it comes down to design as well. The ideal is 400. So the next thing is the space around your cooktop. So, here in Australia, the standard state, it say that there should be 50 mile gap between non combustible materials and 200 mil clearance to combustible materials.
So what, how does that impact Helen, like to set out and, you know, it, as it says, you know, if it's, if you've got a mirrored splash back, your cooktop needs to be set forward. If you've got cupboards tight on the side, they can't be tight on the side. You've got to have that 200 mil clearance. And that's all for safety because if you get a flare up on the cooktop and the cupboards are sitting right next to it, it's highly likely the whole place is going to go up.
So, catch. So, yeah, which is why, um, gas has a higher. space between the bench top and the underside of the overhead cupboards, but not just like for practical and safety reasons, you need to have that little bit of clearance. Um, but ideally, unless you're really tight on space, you probably want at least 300 mil either side of your cooktop as a bit of bench space because, yeah, you want to be able to put your utensils down, you want to have that little bit of space, you don't want to be crammed in between two no, covers at a minimum.
It's just practical. It is, and if you can, if you've got room, 300 mm either side, or even if you have 400 or 500 mm one side and a narrower, you know, um, 300 mm on the other side. You just, yeah, need some space. Okay. So I guess in summary, um, when it comes to materials used in kitchens, safety regulations and guidelines must be followed.
So Australian standards require that materials used for kitchen construction and surfaces must comply, which you and I use all the time, must be set out by standards set in the Building Code of Australia, which we BCA. Yeah. Um, The reason is the standards ensure that all parts of the kitchen, you know, everything has to remain safe, uh, for use and are fire resistant and slip resistant.
That's a good thing, isn't it? Another important thing. Okay. So, use all these tips as a guide to, I guess, ensure that your space flow and the functionality and the space. Safety regulations are met before you sign off any design with your designer for any kitchen. Now that you're aware of them, when you're looking at, when you're working with your designer or kitchen company to resolve the layout of your kitchen, you know, you need to be mindful of what you have to consider.
The numbers. I mean, they should know and they should guide you, but to have an understanding of that just makes the process so much easier. Um, and, and whether it's. If you're just being practical or whether it's for aesthetic purposes, there is no shortage of ideas when it comes to creating a beautiful and functional kitchen that meets all the necessary requirements.
You can still have a beautiful looking kitchen and tick all those requirements off and have it functional and safe. Exactly. Um, but one thing we always say in signing off on this episode is we come to a close, um, you know, we always refer to Pinterest, so go out and have a look, um, at examples of well designed kitchens and Yeah.
You know, for inspiration and, um, yeah, it's, and ideas on how to maximize, you know, storage or space in a, in a tight space. I mean, whatever your space is, type in, you know, tight space or narrow kitchen. Hmm. Ideas. Yeah, exactly. And you'll be thrown, you'll be thrown hundreds of ideas. So, we also have some useful tools on our website, um, we'll put some in the show notes.
Yeah. We've got kitchen checklists and set ups, um, we also have things about style, so we've got a free downloadable about style, and that applies to kitchens and the general home as well. So, check out the show notes, we'll put a few things in there for you to download. But thanks for joining us today on Kitchens Part 2.
There'll be a three, and now I feel like there'll be four. Oh, there's always something to go on. So to sign off, cheers. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the rest of your day. Thanks for joining us on the Two Gins in Design podcast. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode and insights on the world of design and construction.
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